Fury as Council axes Holocaust memorial service
 |
| How the decision was revealed on the front page of The Bolton News |
WIDESPREAD criticism has been levelled at Bolton Council for scrapping the town's annual Holocaust Memorial Day ceremony.
Town Hall chiefs have instead decided to hold an event as part of a genocide memorial day in June.
The council says that would be more inclusive.
But the decision to scrap the Holocaust Memorial event - made following consultation with Bolton Interfaith Council - has triggered criticism from religious leaders and councillors, some of whom said they were unaware of the move.
Liberal Democrat councillor Richard Silvester said: "I am thoroughly ashamed at the decision of Bolton Council and the Bolton Interfaith Council. I believe this is disgraceful and I am embarrassed to call myself a representative of this town."
Services are being held across the world to mark Holocaust Memorial Day today, which commemorates the liberation of the Auschwitz concentration camp.
Between 1940 and 1945, the Nazis killed about 1.5 million people at Auschwitz, mainly Jews but also Poles, gipsies, Russian prisoners of war and people of other nationalities.
Millions died in other concentration camps.
Bolton has held an annual ceremony in the Town Hall for the last seven years, which has been overseen by Rabbi Joseph Lever of the United Synagogue. Candles have been lit by children.
But this year, the flying of the Town Hall flags at half-mast on Sunday will be the only sign of remembrance.
Rabbi Lever said: "I was very upset not to be consulted about the decision and I mourn the fact that the ceremony will not be going ahead in Bolton.
"Schoolchildren have been involved and it was always a moving ceremony which would be attended by a sizeable crowd."
Cllr Silvester said: "The Holocaust should be remembered for all of the people who were persecuted and died, not just Jews, but disabled people, the mentally ill, Romanies, black people, old people, gay and lesbian people."
Labour councillor Frank White, Bolton Council's executive member for cohesion, said: "Councillors are appalled that this decision has been made without the consultation that this serious subject needs. It is sending out all the wrong messages.
"The service has always been sensitive and inclusive of all religions in the town. But this is not just about religion, it is about remembering an evil power who tried to persecute the disabled, sick, homosexual and others."
David Arnold, from north Manchester, is a Holocaust educator and has advised local councils and the Home Office about Holocaust Memorial Days.
| What do you think about this decision? Add your comment at the foot of this page | |
|
He said: "Whoever made the decision failed to understand how the lessons of the Holocaust should challenge us to face up to the fact that racism, prejudice and intolerance still exist in today's society.
"The kindest thing I can say about this decision is that it is a gross error of misjudgement."
Louis Rapaport, president of the Jewish Representative Council of Greater Manchester, said: "There may not be many Jews in Bolton, but the day is supposed to have an educational message to the whole community.
"I can't help feeling the decision was influenced by Bolton's large Muslim community."
Bolton Interfaith Council, which is made up of Christian, Muslim and Hindu representatives, suggested the idea of Genocide Memorial Day to Bolton Council.
Tony McNeile, secretary of the Interfaith Council, said a general memorial day would be more inclusive of all faiths.
He added: "It does not mean bypassing the Holocaust or ignoring it because it will be included in the memorial day in June. It is one of the great tragedies of the world, but it is not the only one."
The Vicar of Bolton, Canon Michael Williams, who is treasurer of the Interfaith Council, said: "The service is a bit artificial because we have never had a Jewish community to support it.
"By changing the day it makes the point that it is not about one genocide, but it is about many."
A Bolton Council statement said: "We are hoping that by supporting the Interfaith Council's idea to join with Genocide Memorial Day and by holding an outdoors event, it will allow many more people to become involved.
"The change does not mean that the Holocaust is being ignored. It will be remembered as part of the Genocide event, which the Interfaith Council feels will be more inclusive."
Cllr Cliff Morris, Leader of Bolton Council, refused to say who made the final decision to cancel the ceremony.
"The Interfaith Council has always organised the event and Bolton Council went along with their recommendation," he said.
"We did not want to upset anyone or snub the Holocaust. It will be marked in June and the flag will still be flown at half-mast this weekend."
In neighbouring Bury, faith and political leaders joined the public for a service at Bury Town Hall to mark Holocaust Memorial Day on Thursday.
11:19am Saturday 27th January 2007
Print 
Email this 
CommentPosted by: e.brereton on 9:21pm Fri 26 Jan 07
very sad that the memorial service has been cancelled by in bolton, just another act that shows that people of this area do not understand that what happened in the 40S was the very worst that a human can do to another humam. do not let the moden day acts of violence over shaddow the fact that hitler was a totally evil person and so are every one who supported him.
very sad that the memorial service has been cancelled by in bolton, just another act that shows that people of this area do not understand that what happened in the 40S was the very worst that a human can do to another humam. do not let the moden day acts of violence over shaddow the fact that hitler was a totally evil person and so are every one who supported him.
Posted by: Daisy on 10:42pm Fri 26 Jan 07
What an utterly dispicable comment from the 'spokesman'!
'Artificial'!
Anyone who works for Bolton council is supposed to value diversity and promote community involvement.
It does not matter that Bolton council consider there isn't a Jewish community to support the memorial day...we all need to remember what happened.
What an utterly dispicable comment from the 'spokesman'!
'Artificial'!
Anyone who works for Bolton council is supposed to value diversity and promote community involvement.
It does not matter that Bolton council consider there isn't a Jewish community to support the memorial day...we all need to remember what happened.
Posted by: Anne Barton on 1:08am Sat 27 Jan 07
I Support the councils decision. I don't think it is a good idea to have a separate day for one particular group when so many suffered during the second world war.
The Russians lost 20 million during the second world war yet we do not have a special day to remember the Russians.
Of course we are all very respectful to the memory of the six million jews that were murdered during the war but I feel we must remember all the suffering of all of humanity together. No group ought to have special victim status.
Millions worldwide have been murdered in countless wars and every person lost ought to be remembered on one special day.
To have separate days of rememberence for Jews, Arabs, Catholics etc only serves to ghettoize the suffering and lessens the impact and message.
I Support the councils decision. I don't think it is a good idea to have a separate day for one particular group when so many suffered during the second world war.
The Russians lost 20 million during the second world war yet we do not have a special day to remember the Russians.
Of course we are all very respectful to the memory of the six million jews that were murdered during the war but I feel we must remember all the suffering of all of humanity together. No group ought to have special victim status.
Millions worldwide have been murdered in countless wars and every person lost ought to be remembered on one special day.
To have separate days of rememberence for Jews, Arabs, Catholics etc only serves to ghettoize the suffering and lessens the impact and message.
Posted by: A Kay on 10:39am Sat 27 Jan 07
What a bold and couragouse decision. Should not be intimidated by anyone or any lobby. Hope many others follow suit. Well done to all concerned.
What a bold and couragouse decision. Should not be intimidated by anyone or any lobby. Hope many others follow suit. Well done to all concerned.
Posted by: carl on 11:20am Sat 27 Jan 07
its better to have one day to pay respect to everyone that died due to racism,wars etc.otherwise it all gets watered down.we hear quite a lot about jews suffering in ww2 but almost nothing about other groups like gypsies,gays and jehovahs winesses being murdered in gas camps.so maybe if we had one genocide day we could remember all the victims of nazism together.noone will then be left out.
its better to have one day to pay respect to everyone that died due to racism,wars etc.otherwise it all gets watered down.we hear quite a lot about jews suffering in ww2 but almost nothing about other groups like gypsies,gays and jehovahs winesses being murdered in gas camps.so maybe if we had one genocide day we could remember all the victims of nazism together.noone will then be left out.
Posted by: Emma Dodds on 1:13pm Sat 27 Jan 07
The council are 100% right. One day of ceremony is better because that will make everyone concentrate on the horrors of war.
If certain religions have their own day of ceremony then people will just take an interest in their own particular religion.
The Bolton News seems to be blowing this story way out of proportion. Because the council want to have one day to remember all victims of genocide together it doesn't mean that the council is anti-jewish.
The council are 100% right. One day of ceremony is better because that will make everyone concentrate on the horrors of war.
If certain religions have their own day of ceremony then people will just take an interest in their own particular religion.
The Bolton News seems to be blowing this story way out of proportion. Because the council want to have one day to remember all victims of genocide together it doesn't mean that the council is anti-jewish.
Posted by: Peter on 1:13pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Well done Bolton Council, no one group deserves to be distinguished above all others who also suffered through the holocaust that was the Second World War and it is fitting that one big memorial is held remembering those who died in all holocausts including the 26,000 women and children who died in British Concentration Camps during the Boer War.
Well done Bolton Council, no one group deserves to be distinguished above all others who also suffered through the holocaust that was the Second World War and it is fitting that one big memorial is held remembering those who died in all holocausts including the 26,000 women and children who died in British Concentration Camps during the Boer War.
Posted by: JB on 1:14pm Sat 27 Jan 07
well bolton council do it again. we have the worst council in the world. i will be doing a show in leeds tonight. but i never say im from bolton to anyone, i say im from manchester. once again i feel so ashamed to be boltonian thanks to our council. what next ?
well bolton council do it again. we have the worst council in the world. i will be doing a show in leeds tonight. but i never say im from bolton to anyone, i say im from manchester. once again i feel so ashamed to be boltonian thanks to our council. what next ?
Posted by: charlotte on 1:41pm Sat 27 Jan 07
a few years ago i used to think that hitler only killed the jews and it came as a shock for me to discover that he also killed many others including germans.so its important that we remember all the people who hitler killed as well as jewish people.one day when everyone can be prayed for together is a great idea because it will bring all communities together.
a few years ago i used to think that hitler only killed the jews and it came as a shock for me to discover that he also killed many others including germans.so its important that we remember all the people who hitler killed as well as jewish people.one day when everyone can be prayed for together is a great idea because it will bring all communities together.
Posted by: Barak on 1:58pm Sat 27 Jan 07
David Beckham, Victoria Beckham, Vannessa Felz, Bruce Forsyth, etc are all Jewish. Famous household names and great public figures. So I think it would be a great idea if Jewish celebrities were to attend holocaust day events to raise the profile of such events in the eyes of the non Jewish public.
The danger is, as others have pointed out, that holocaust day could become marginalised and seen as a jewish event, when as Cllr Silvester says it is really about the persecution and suffering of all peoples.
Can you imagine the publicity generated if David Beckham, who regularly attended synagoge with his grandad, were to attend here in Bolton? The event wouldn't be described as artificial then.
David Beckham, Victoria Beckham, Vannessa Felz, Bruce Forsyth, etc are all Jewish. Famous household names and great public figures. So I think it would be a great idea if Jewish celebrities were to attend holocaust day events to raise the profile of such events in the eyes of the non Jewish public.
The danger is, as others have pointed out, that holocaust day could become marginalised and seen as a jewish event, when as Cllr Silvester says it is really about the persecution and suffering of all peoples.
Can you imagine the publicity generated if David Beckham, who regularly attended synagoge with his grandad, were to attend here in Bolton? The event wouldn't be described as artificial then.
Posted by: Ian Upton on 2:16pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Strange comment from Canon Williams since the best man at his daughter wedding was Jewish .
I know the family and the sister of this best man was beaten in a racist attack.
When the police were called the mother was arested and her career as a teacher put on the line because she had tried to defend herself when the thugs went to attack her as well.
What happened to the thugs? well they didnt turn up at court against the Teacher and not one police officer attmpted to arrest them even though a call was put in after her daughter was visibly beaten and injured.
Is it any wonder Jewish people dont want to be a part of Bolton?
Strange comment from Canon Williams since the best man at his daughter wedding was Jewish .
I know the family and the sister of this best man was beaten in a racist attack.
When the police were called the mother was arested and her career as a teacher put on the line because she had tried to defend herself when the thugs went to attack her as well.
What happened to the thugs? well they didnt turn up at court against the Teacher and not one police officer attmpted to arrest them even though a call was put in after her daughter was visibly beaten and injured.
Is it any wonder Jewish people dont want to be a part of Bolton?
Posted by: gorgeous george on 2:17pm Sat 27 Jan 07
good idea barak but how far do you want to go?.tony blairs dad leo is jewish and blairs son is engaged to a jewish girl.so would you want the blairs turning up at one of the events?.that might be a bit counter productive.good idea about becks getting involved though.just wish big sam had been able to hire his services too.
good idea barak but how far do you want to go?.tony blairs dad leo is jewish and blairs son is engaged to a jewish girl.so would you want the blairs turning up at one of the events?.that might be a bit counter productive.good idea about becks getting involved though.just wish big sam had been able to hire his services too.
Posted by: Christo on 2:51pm Sat 27 Jan 07
We already have a day set aside for this sort of thing, Remembrance Sunday, I don't see the point in having 1001 different Remembrance days when we already have one?
We already have a day set aside for this sort of thing, Remembrance Sunday, I don't see the point in having 1001 different Remembrance days when we already have one?
Posted by: Chris B on 3:01pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Remembrance days don't seem to be doing the world any good at all, as people worldwide are persecuting & killing each other.
It doesn't help that the good ol' US of A is trying to make up for the fact that they were late showing up for the last two world wars by being REALLY punctual for the next one...
Remembrance days don't seem to be doing the world any good at all, as people worldwide are persecuting & killing each other.
It doesn't help that the good ol' US of A is trying to make up for the fact that they were late showing up for the last two world wars by being REALLY punctual for the next one...
Posted by: M. Aziz on 3:27pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Sadly the people who survived the horror of the Holocaust don’t need the reminders, it is the rest of humanity who need to think carefully about what happened. How a civilised cultured country could, at the instigation of a few evil men turn into the savages who committed murder on an industrial scale is incomprehensible . If it could happen to Germany it could happen again anywhere and it has. Poll Pot, Ruanda, Srebrenica.
Sadly there are people today who preach hatred like that in Germany in the thirties, for this reason alone it is better to remember what the Holocaust means and then mean it when we say, NEVER AGAIN.
Sadly the people who survived the horror of the Holocaust don’t need the reminders, it is the rest of humanity who need to think carefully about what happened. How a civilised cultured country could, at the instigation of a few evil men turn into the savages who committed murder on an industrial scale is incomprehensible . If it could happen to Germany it could happen again anywhere and it has. Poll Pot, Ruanda, Srebrenica.
Sadly there are people today who preach hatred like that in Germany in the thirties, for this reason alone it is better to remember what the Holocaust means and then mean it when we say, NEVER AGAIN.
Posted by: Ben on 3:29pm Sat 27 Jan 07
60 million died in WWII, I refuse to accept that the Jews are more important than any of the others, even though they think they are.
“the life of a hundred Gentiles is not worth one Jewish toenail”? It was proclaimed by Rabbi Yaakov Perrin, on Feb. 27, 1994 and quoted by the N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994
60 million died in WWII, I refuse to accept that the Jews are more important than any of the others, even though they think they are.
“the life of a hundred Gentiles is not worth one Jewish toenail”? It was proclaimed by Rabbi Yaakov Perrin, on Feb. 27, 1994 and quoted by the N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994
Posted by: Old Farnworthian on 3:53pm Sat 27 Jan 07
The German government is forced to pay reparations and compensation to the state of Israel for what happened in the holocaust.
Fair enough, but how come other groups who were persecuted by the nazis don't get compensated? The nazis knocked the **** out of our country during WW2 and at the end of the war we ended up helping tp pay for Germany to be re-built.
If Israel are entitled to billions in compensation then Germany should compensate civillians who were killed in Britain too.
The German government is forced to pay reparations and compensation to the state of Israel for what happened in the holocaust.
Fair enough, but how come other groups who were persecuted by the nazis don't get compensated? The nazis knocked the **** out of our country during WW2 and at the end of the war we ended up helping tp pay for Germany to be re-built.
If Israel are entitled to billions in compensation then Germany should compensate civillians who were killed in Britain too.
Posted by: pete on 4:05pm Sat 27 Jan 07
[quote][bold]Ben[/bold] wrote:
60 million died in WWII, I refuse to accept that the Jews are more important than any of the others, even though they think they are.
“the life of a hundred Gentiles is not worth one Jewish toenail”? It was proclaimed by Rabbi Yaakov Perrin, on Feb. 27, 1994 and quoted by the N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994[/quote] spot on ben, jewish groups have played on sympathy for what happened to them under hitler while at the same time israel persecutes the palestinians.the news always seems to be biased towards israel for reasons i cant understand.im sorry for jews that were murdered during the war but that doesnt give israel the right to do what it wants.
Ben wrote:
60 million died in WWII, I refuse to accept that the Jews are more important than any of the others, even though they think they are.
“the life of a hundred Gentiles is not worth one Jewish toenail”? It was proclaimed by Rabbi Yaakov Perrin, on Feb. 27, 1994 and quoted by the N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994
spot on ben, jewish groups have played on sympathy for what happened to them under hitler while at the same time israel persecutes the palestinians.the news always seems to be biased towards israel for reasons i cant understand.im sorry for jews that were murdered during the war but that doesnt give israel the right to do what it wants.
Posted by: Anne Barton on 4:59pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Looks like all this story has managed to do is stir up yet more racial tension!
Looks like all this story has managed to do is stir up yet more racial tension!
Posted by: UK Daily Pundit - blogger on 5:10pm Sat 27 Jan 07
This decision flies in the face of the government's so-called 'community cohesion' agenda. It's a decision which further legitimises the Muslim Council of Britain's policy of boycotting Holocaust Memorial Day. The funding MCB receives from the government should be withdrawn immediately.
This decision flies in the face of the government's so-called 'community cohesion' agenda. It's a decision which further legitimises the Muslim Council of Britain's policy of boycotting Holocaust Memorial Day. The funding MCB receives from the government should be withdrawn immediately.
Posted by: Commentator on 6:20pm Sat 27 Jan 07
I totally agree with Frank White.The message of what happened has to be kept very much in the public eye so it never happens again.If the council are taking the blame for this Cliff Morris has to say who made this decision on its behalf.It must have been a so called Executive Member an officer wouldn't dare make such a decision in isolation.I didn't realise the Multi Faith Council had so much influence with our Council--Whatever happened to the wise concept of "Never mix Politics and religion"
Grist to your mill Frank for standing up to inapropriate manipulation :The majority are with you.
I totally agree with Frank White.The message of what happened has to be kept very much in the public eye so it never happens again.If the council are taking the blame for this Cliff Morris has to say who made this decision on its behalf.It must have been a so called Executive Member an officer wouldn't dare make such a decision in isolation.I didn't realise the Multi Faith Council had so much influence with our Council--Whatever happened to the wise concept of "Never mix Politics and religion"
Grist to your mill Frank for standing up to inapropriate manipulation :The majority are with you.
Posted by: Commentator on 6:45pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Well said to Ian Upton.As Boltonians we have allowed our unique identity to be eroded so much over the last few years by PC attituded and bending towards Minorities we have lost our way.They will be objecting to rememberance Sunday next.This is inapropriate manipulation of the worst kind and says more about Religious infighting than it does about the true meaning of the ceremony.Religion has its place but it should know its boundaries although I sometimes wonder if our so called religious leaders live in the real world.
Well said to Ian Upton.As Boltonians we have allowed our unique identity to be eroded so much over the last few years by PC attituded and bending towards Minorities we have lost our way.They will be objecting to rememberance Sunday next.This is inapropriate manipulation of the worst kind and says more about Religious infighting than it does about the true meaning of the ceremony.Religion has its place but it should know its boundaries although I sometimes wonder if our so called religious leaders live in the real world.
Posted by: MG on 6:55pm Sat 27 Jan 07
I am proud to say that here will be a Holocaust Day commenoration in my borough tomorrow led by a local Rabbi assisted by my Church of England vicar.
Thank the Lord I am a softy southerner. You people of Bolton should be ashamed.
I am proud to say that here will be a Holocaust Day commenoration in my borough tomorrow led by a local Rabbi assisted by my Church of England vicar.
Thank the Lord I am a softy southerner. You people of Bolton should be ashamed.
Posted by: lindy loo on 6:59pm Sat 27 Jan 07
ts not the people of Bolton who should be ashamed but the council leaders who deemed that the memorial day be cancelled. I think most people of Bolton wish our council leaders were of the good standing as your southern ones
ts not the people of Bolton who should be ashamed but the council leaders who deemed that the memorial day be cancelled. I think most people of Bolton wish our council leaders were of the good standing as your southern ones
Posted by: Pauline Smith on 9:40pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Completely agree with this decision. The majority of comments here are in favour, but isn't it ironic that the vote on this page is the reverse. I wonder why?
What a great idea adopted by the Interfaith Council! Should encompass all genocides and not just one. Anyway what's in a name? Finally, don't let the hound dogs get to any one!
Why are the Muslims being implicated again by Louis Rapaport? Was he/she present at any meetings? Proud and Fair Boltonion
Completely agree with this decision. The majority of comments here are in favour, but isn't it ironic that the vote on this page is the reverse. I wonder why?
What a great idea adopted by the Interfaith Council! Should encompass all genocides and not just one. Anyway what's in a name? Finally, don't let the hound dogs get to any one!
Why are the Muslims being implicated again by Louis Rapaport? Was he/she present at any meetings? Proud and Fair Boltonion
Posted by: Reason on 9:41pm Sat 27 Jan 07
to the old Farnworthian, if you want to know why we didn't demand reparation after the second world war take a look at what happened when we did so after the first! Hitler was accepted by millions of desperate people as a seeming way out of the abject poverty of their lives to the ruin of Europe! If people want to understand why we still need to remember the Holocaust then take a look at b's comments.
Yes there has been many different mass murderous episodes in history but this saw the virtual, pre-planned eradication of a part of the European community on an industrial scale. Jews have been one of the people's of Europe for well over a thousand years. Its the fact that in this case someone was trying to commit genocide on one of the European races. There are 7 million Scots in Scotland I believe, so imagine if someone came along and tried to wipe them off the earth being almost successful and that in 50 years time would we say, well its not worth remembering in itself? No we would want our children to learn from such an act and if we continue to remember the Holocaust hopefully we will see no such thing in Europe again.
The Gypsies do have a separate day to remember what happened to them but living in countries who spent the post war years behind the curtain and still live amongst people hostile to there living alongside them its not promoted over there as its believed it would heighten existing tensions.
to the old Farnworthian, if you want to know why we didn't demand reparation after the second world war take a look at what happened when we did so after the first! Hitler was accepted by millions of desperate people as a seeming way out of the abject poverty of their lives to the ruin of Europe! If people want to understand why we still need to remember the Holocaust then take a look at b's comments.
Yes there has been many different mass murderous episodes in history but this saw the virtual, pre-planned eradication of a part of the European community on an industrial scale. Jews have been one of the people's of Europe for well over a thousand years. Its the fact that in this case someone was trying to commit genocide on one of the European races. There are 7 million Scots in Scotland I believe, so imagine if someone came along and tried to wipe them off the earth being almost successful and that in 50 years time would we say, well its not worth remembering in itself? No we would want our children to learn from such an act and if we continue to remember the Holocaust hopefully we will see no such thing in Europe again.
The Gypsies do have a separate day to remember what happened to them but living in countries who spent the post war years behind the curtain and still live amongst people hostile to there living alongside them its not promoted over there as its believed it would heighten existing tensions.
Posted by: Peter on 10:21pm Sat 27 Jan 07
We seem to be losing sight of the fact here, no one group should be singled out, the idea of one day to commemerate all genocides and not just one is excellent. All genocides should be remembered, even the mass murder and war crimes that we committed on the 100,000's of German civillians in Dresden, Hamburg etc.
We seem to be losing sight of the fact here, no one group should be singled out, the idea of one day to commemerate all genocides and not just one is excellent. All genocides should be remembered, even the mass murder and war crimes that we committed on the 100,000's of German civillians in Dresden, Hamburg etc.
Posted by: Power Ranger on 11:50pm Sat 27 Jan 07
[quote][bold]Pauline Smith[/bold] wrote:
Completely agree with this decision. The majority of comments here are in favour, but isn't it ironic that the vote on this page is the reverse. I wonder why?
What a great idea adopted by the Interfaith Council! Should encompass all genocides and not just one. Anyway what's in a name? Finally, don't let the hound dogs get to any one!
Why are the Muslims being implicated again by Louis Rapaport? Was he/she present at any meetings? Proud and Fair Boltonion [/quote] I think polls like this are a waste of time because the question is usually very leading and designed to get a certain result. The council decision to have one day commemorate all victims is a very clever idea. I cant see how anyone can justify one group having their own day.
Jewish groups however will probably say that this is anti-semtism, which it isnt. That is their way of intimidating anyone who is critical. Like when people are accused of being closet homosexuals if they object to gay adoption, or being racist if they condemn muslims.
Pauline Smith wrote:
Completely agree with this decision. The majority of comments here are in favour, but isn't it ironic that the vote on this page is the reverse. I wonder why?
What a great idea adopted by the Interfaith Council! Should encompass all genocides and not just one. Anyway what's in a name? Finally, don't let the hound dogs get to any one!
Why are the Muslims being implicated again by Louis Rapaport? Was he/she present at any meetings? Proud and Fair Boltonion
I think polls like this are a waste of time because the question is usually very leading and designed to get a certain result. The council decision to have one day commemorate all victims is a very clever idea. I cant see how anyone can justify one group having their own day.
Jewish groups however will probably say that this is anti-semtism, which it isnt. That is their way of intimidating anyone who is critical. Like when people are accused of being closet homosexuals if they object to gay adoption, or being racist if they condemn muslims.
Posted by: Reason on 12:09am Sun 28 Jan 07
to the old Farnworthian, if you want to know why we didn't demand reparation after the second world war take a look at what happened when we did so after the first! Hitler was accepted by millions of desperate people as a seeming way out of the abject poverty of their lives to the ruin of Europe! If people want to understand why we still need to remember the Holocaust then take a look at b's comments.
Yes there has been many different mass murderous episodes in history but this saw the virtual, pre-planned eradication of a part of the European community on an industrial scale. Jews have been one of the people's of Europe for well over a thousand years. Its the fact that in this case someone was trying to commit genocide on one of the European races. There are 7 million Scots in Scotland I believe, so imagine if someone came along and tried to wipe them off the earth being almost successful and that in 50 years time would we say, well its not worth remembering in itself? No we would want our children to learn from such an act and if we continue to remember the Holocaust hopefully we will see no such thing in Europe again.
The Gypsies do have a separate day to remember what happened to them but living in countries who spent the post war years behind the curtain and still live amongst people hostile to there living alongside them its not promoted over there as its believed it would heighten existing tensions.
to the old Farnworthian, if you want to know why we didn't demand reparation after the second world war take a look at what happened when we did so after the first! Hitler was accepted by millions of desperate people as a seeming way out of the abject poverty of their lives to the ruin of Europe! If people want to understand why we still need to remember the Holocaust then take a look at b's comments.
Yes there has been many different mass murderous episodes in history but this saw the virtual, pre-planned eradication of a part of the European community on an industrial scale. Jews have been one of the people's of Europe for well over a thousand years. Its the fact that in this case someone was trying to commit genocide on one of the European races. There are 7 million Scots in Scotland I believe, so imagine if someone came along and tried to wipe them off the earth being almost successful and that in 50 years time would we say, well its not worth remembering in itself? No we would want our children to learn from such an act and if we continue to remember the Holocaust hopefully we will see no such thing in Europe again.
The Gypsies do have a separate day to remember what happened to them but living in countries who spent the post war years behind the curtain and still live amongst people hostile to there living alongside them its not promoted over there as its believed it would heighten existing tensions.
Posted by: lindy loo on 12:26am Sun 28 Jan 07
well said you obviously know what your talking about but just one point as a scot myself i truly believe no-one could persecute us as were too **** stubborn and aggressive to listen hehe. lots of valid points and a good end to a good discussion p.s thanks for your comments on b because he got real nasty with me.
peace
well said you obviously know what your talking about but just one point as a scot myself i truly believe no-one could persecute us as were too **** stubborn and aggressive to listen hehe. lots of valid points and a good end to a good discussion p.s thanks for your comments on b because he got real nasty with me.
peace
Posted by: Nazi or Islamist ignoramus on 5:51am Sun 28 Jan 07
People talk about the six million Jews and millions of Poles, homosexuals, gypsies, communists and other non-nationals killed under the Nazis but why should this genocide be more important than the 30,000 Palestinians who have been killed fighting Israel in the last sixty years?
People talk about the six million Jews and millions of Poles, homosexuals, gypsies, communists and other non-nationals killed under the Nazis but why should this genocide be more important than the 30,000 Palestinians who have been killed fighting Israel in the last sixty years?
Posted by: Ignoramus on 6:07am Sun 28 Jan 07
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/4445811.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/4445811.stm
Posted by: Boltonbloke on 10:40am Sun 28 Jan 07
All acts of genocide need to be remembered. History only repeats itself because no one listens. The decision to create a genocide memorial day is right and proper and will recognise the suffering of many communities in Bolton
All acts of genocide need to be remembered. History only repeats itself because no one listens. The decision to create a genocide memorial day is right and proper and will recognise the suffering of many communities in Bolton
Posted by: Arthur Leaburn on 10:43am Sun 28 Jan 07
I think it is more than obvious that attitudes are changing in relation to minorities. I notice it most among the young as I am a teacher of many years standing.
Regretfully it appears that the liberal world view, which has held such sway since the early 1960s is now in its final stages, giving birth to a new era of intolerance, reflected in the growth of far right political groupings around the world.
We ought not be surprised by this though as history has demonstrated, clearly and decisively, that a sea change in politics often manifests itself every 40 years or so.
The Liberal and quite possibly the democratic era are giving way to a new mould of political attitude, I've seen this develop slowly since around 1990 and now it appears that this new attitude is gathering pace.
I think it is more than obvious that attitudes are changing in relation to minorities. I notice it most among the young as I am a teacher of many years standing.
Regretfully it appears that the liberal world view, which has held such sway since the early 1960s is now in its final stages, giving birth to a new era of intolerance, reflected in the growth of far right political groupings around the world.
We ought not be surprised by this though as history has demonstrated, clearly and decisively, that a sea change in politics often manifests itself every 40 years or so.
The Liberal and quite possibly the democratic era are giving way to a new mould of political attitude, I've seen this develop slowly since around 1990 and now it appears that this new attitude is gathering pace.
Posted by: Brian on 12:53pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Bolton has always been a racist town. Back in the 1970s when I was working on a contract in the town a mate of mine talked me into attending a National Front meeting and out of curiosity we went along. I can honestly say that I've never seen such a bunch of bloodthirsty and violent looking people in my life. The Bolton branch of the National Front terrified me and I couldn't wait for the meeting to end. It was like being in a room full of pirates. Those fellas really scared me and looking at some of the posts here it seems Bolton people are still very aggressive and very racist.
Bolton has always been a racist town. Back in the 1970s when I was working on a contract in the town a mate of mine talked me into attending a National Front meeting and out of curiosity we went along. I can honestly say that I've never seen such a bunch of bloodthirsty and violent looking people in my life. The Bolton branch of the National Front terrified me and I couldn't wait for the meeting to end. It was like being in a room full of pirates. Those fellas really scared me and looking at some of the posts here it seems Bolton people are still very aggressive and very racist.
Posted by: Marco on 1:04pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Excellent point by the way Ellen Morris.
I would like pose the following question to one of the earlier posters (tubby scruff) who asked "what about the Arabs and Palestinians killed by the Jews?" Well I'm afraid, when Jews are defending themselves from Palestinian terrorists who want Israel destroyed, deaths are inevitable.
I wander if he could also afford me the courtesy of answering me this question, how many innocent civilians have been killed by Jews, compared to that of Muslims. The vast contrast will be quite startling. Yes please do include Iraq, 9/11, Mumbai train blasts, Beslan, Bali, Kenya (embassy bombings), Thailand, 7/7, Madrid Bombings etc.
I know it may be rather unpalatable to some, but Israel cannot be blamed for every problem in the Arab world.
Excellent point by the way Ellen Morris.
I would like pose the following question to one of the earlier posters (tubby scruff) who asked "what about the Arabs and Palestinians killed by the Jews?" Well I'm afraid, when Jews are defending themselves from Palestinian terrorists who want Israel destroyed, deaths are inevitable.
I wander if he could also afford me the courtesy of answering me this question, how many innocent civilians have been killed by Jews, compared to that of Muslims. The vast contrast will be quite startling. Yes please do include Iraq, 9/11, Mumbai train blasts, Beslan, Bali, Kenya (embassy bombings), Thailand, 7/7, Madrid Bombings etc.
I know it may be rather unpalatable to some, but Israel cannot be blamed for every problem in the Arab world.
Posted by: John McNabb on 2:30pm Sun 28 Jan 07
The council is spot on!
Why is there no mention of suicide bombing by the Israelis on the British and the Palestinians? Let’s add a few examples:
August 20, 1937 - June 29, 1939. During this period, the Zionists carried out a series of attacks against Arab buses, resulting in the death of 24 persons and wounding 25 others.
November 25, 1940. S.S.Patria was blown up by Jewish terrorists in Haifa harbour, killing 268 illegal Jewish immigrants.
November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.
July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the central offices of the civilian administration of the government of Palestine, killing and injuring more than 200 persons. The Irgun officially claimed responsibility for the incident, but subsequent evidence indicated that both the Haganah and the Jewish Agency were involved.
December 11, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.
December 13,1947. Zionist terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas. In Jerusalem, bombs were thrown in an Arab market-place near the Damascus Gate.
December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses, in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.
December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.
December 30,1947. A mixed force of the Zionist Palmach and the "Carmel Brigade" attacked the village of Balad al Sheikh, killing more than 60 Arabs.
1947 -- 1948. Over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were uprooted from their homes and land, and forced to live in refugee camps on Israel's borders. They have been denied the right to return to their homes.
January 1, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked a village on the slopes of Mount Carmel; 17 Arabs were killed and 33 wounded.
January 4, 1948. Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) which was used as a headquarters of the Arab National Committee, killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.
January 16, 1948. Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.
I can go on and on and on……
The council is spot on!
Why is there no mention of suicide bombing by the Israelis on the British and the Palestinians? Let’s add a few examples:
August 20, 1937 - June 29, 1939. During this period, the Zionists carried out a series of attacks against Arab buses, resulting in the death of 24 persons and wounding 25 others.
November 25, 1940. S.S.Patria was blown up by Jewish terrorists in Haifa harbour, killing 268 illegal Jewish immigrants.
November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.
July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the central offices of the civilian administration of the government of Palestine, killing and injuring more than 200 persons. The Irgun officially claimed responsibility for the incident, but subsequent evidence indicated that both the Haganah and the Jewish Agency were involved.
December 11, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.
December 13,1947. Zionist terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas. In Jerusalem, bombs were thrown in an Arab market-place near the Damascus Gate.
December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses, in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.
December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.
December 30,1947. A mixed force of the Zionist Palmach and the "Carmel Brigade" attacked the village of Balad al Sheikh, killing more than 60 Arabs.
1947 -- 1948. Over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were uprooted from their homes and land, and forced to live in refugee camps on Israel's borders. They have been denied the right to return to their homes.
January 1, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked a village on the slopes of Mount Carmel; 17 Arabs were killed and 33 wounded.
January 4, 1948. Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) which was used as a headquarters of the Arab National Committee, killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.
January 16, 1948. Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.
I can go on and on and on……
Posted by: ian on 2:40pm Sun 28 Jan 07
In Britain, [bold]all[/bold] men are equal. But some believe that there those who are more equal than others.
Bravo to the council, they are actually doing what the many are thinking!!
In Britain,
all men are equal. But some believe that there those who are more equal than others.
Bravo to the council, they are actually doing what the many are thinking!!
Posted by: Marco on 3:14pm Sun 28 Jan 07
John McNabb
That is rather a feeble attempt to divert the attention away from Islamic Terrorism. Can you provide credible sources by the way to substantiate all those "alleged" attacks?
I'm afraid, Islamic Terrorism makes terrorism from ALL other religions seem inconsequential and insignificant. I only need to highlight one atrocity of Islamic Terrorism, which consequently, dwarfs all the occurrences in that list put together. In 9/11, around 3000 innocent people lost their life, which is vastly more than the total number in your whole list isn’t it? Here are just some cases of that vile occurrence of Islamic Terrorism. I emphasise the word “some”. Obviously 1000’s more innocents have been killed in Iraq etc.
Examples of attacks
• 7 March 2006 - 2006 Varanasi bombings. An attack attributed to Lashkar-e-Toiba by Uttar Pradesh government officials, over 28 killed and over 100 injured, in a series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi. Uttar Pradesh government officials.
• 9 November 2005 - 2005 Amman bombings. Over 60 killed and 115 injured, in a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan. Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.
• 29 October 2005 - 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.
• 23 July 2005 - Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.
• 7 July 2005 - Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.
• 4 February 2005 - Muslim militants attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people.
• 3 September 2004 Approximately 344 civilians including 186 children, are massacred during the Beslan school hostage crisis by Chechen Islamist Terrorists or "Chechen Separatists".[5]
• 11 March 2004 - Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured. (alleged link to Al-Qaeda)
• 16 May 2004- Casablanca Attacks - 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafaia Jihadia.
• 12 October 2002 - Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.
• 24 September 2002 - Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.[37][38]
• 7 May 2002 - Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured
• 9 March 2002 - Café suicide bombing in Jerusalem; 11 killed, 54 injured
• 3 March 2002 - Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 29 dead, 133 injured
• 13 December 2001-Suicide attack on India's parliament in New Delhi. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. Allegedly done by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba.
• 11 September 2001 - September 11, 2001 attacks 4 planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center and The Pentagon by 19 hijackers. Nearly 3000 dead.
• 7 August 1998 - 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured
• 25 June 1996 - Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.
• 26 February 1993 - World Trade Center bombing. 6 killed.
• 18 April 1983 - April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing in Beirut, Lebanon. 63 killed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist_terrorism
John McNabb
That is rather a feeble attempt to divert the attention away from Islamic Terrorism. Can you provide credible sources by the way to substantiate all those "alleged" attacks?
I'm afraid, Islamic Terrorism makes terrorism from ALL other religions seem inconsequential and insignificant. I only need to highlight one atrocity of Islamic Terrorism, which consequently, dwarfs all the occurrences in that list put together. In 9/11, around 3000 innocent people lost their life, which is vastly more than the total number in your whole list isn’t it? Here are just some cases of that vile occurrence of Islamic Terrorism. I emphasise the word “some”. Obviously 1000’s more innocents have been killed in Iraq etc.
Examples of attacks
• 7 March 2006 - 2006 Varanasi bombings. An attack attributed to Lashkar-e-Toiba by Uttar Pradesh government officials, over 28 killed and over 100 injured, in a series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi. Uttar Pradesh government officials.
• 9 November 2005 - 2005 Amman bombings. Over 60 killed and 115 injured, in a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan. Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.
• 29 October 2005 - 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.
• 23 July 2005 - Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.
• 7 July 2005 - Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.
• 4 February 2005 - Muslim militants attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people.
• 3 September 2004 Approximately 344 civilians including 186 children, are massacred during the Beslan school hostage crisis by Chechen Islamist Terrorists or "Chechen Separatists".
• 11 March 2004 - Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured. (alleged link to Al-Qaeda)
• 16 May 2004- Casablanca Attacks - 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafaia Jihadia.
• 12 October 2002 - Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.
• 24 September 2002 - Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.
• 7 May 2002 - Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured
• 9 March 2002 - Café suicide bombing in Jerusalem; 11 killed, 54 injured
• 3 March 2002 - Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 29 dead, 133 injured
• 13 December 2001-Suicide attack on India's parliament in New Delhi. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. Allegedly done by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba.
• 11 September 2001 - September 11, 2001 attacks 4 planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center and The Pentagon by 19 hijackers. Nearly 3000 dead.
• 7 August 1998 - 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured
• 25 June 1996 - Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.
• 26 February 1993 - World Trade Center bombing. 6 killed.
• 18 April 1983 - April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing in Beirut, Lebanon. 63 killed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist_terrorism
Posted by: Marco on 3:29pm Sun 28 Jan 07
By the way, please do furnish me with examples of “alleged” Jewish terrorism that is just slightly more recent than the 1940’s.
Israel's legitimate responses to Palestinian terrorist attacks don't count by the way. I’m referring to the deliberate murder of innocent civilians here, much like the suicide bombings and the incessant firing of rockets indiscriminately into Israel. It is manifestly apparent that the Palestinians hate the Israelis more than they love their own kind anyway, with all this in-house fighting going on. Same thing happening in Iraq too it would seem.
By the way, please do furnish me with examples of “alleged” Jewish terrorism that is just slightly more recent than the 1940’s.
Israel's legitimate responses to Palestinian terrorist attacks don't count by the way. I’m referring to the deliberate murder of innocent civilians here, much like the suicide bombings and the incessant firing of rockets indiscriminately into Israel. It is manifestly apparent that the Palestinians hate the Israelis more than they love their own kind anyway, with all this in-house fighting going on. Same thing happening in Iraq too it would seem.
Posted by: Daniel Allen on 3:58pm Sun 28 Jan 07
It seems unfortunate that some people think that it was pressure from the Bolton muslim community that convinced the Council to call off the Holocaust Memorial Day, despite the fact that it was an interfaith decision. This decision in no way belittles or decreases the extent of the Jewish tragedy that took place during the second world war. It merely emphasises that in addition to the millions of Jews who lost their lives during the excesses of the war, there are many many others who have also lost their lives, in and out of the battle field. Many more are continuing to loose their lives in and around the world till this day. Middle East, Palestine, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Lebanon . Innocent life lost anywhere is a tragedy.
It is a bold and brave step to commemorate all innocent killed in war and conflict around the world, in both past and present conflicts. Its time that people realise that its not just the Jewish Community who have suffered during the war, but many many others as well. If we live in a global and tolerant community called UK, then surely we should all remember people killed in conflict. People of all religions and nationality. It does not make monitary sense to remember all the victims separately, based on ethnic and religious divide.
I think that its time that the Jewish community realise that no one is trying to overtake the importance of the Holocaust, but merely explain the importance of it and other tragedies as well.
It seems unfortunate that some people think that it was pressure from the Bolton muslim community that convinced the Council to call off the Holocaust Memorial Day, despite the fact that it was an interfaith decision. This decision in no way belittles or decreases the extent of the Jewish tragedy that took place during the second world war. It merely emphasises that in addition to the millions of Jews who lost their lives during the excesses of the war, there are many many others who have also lost their lives, in and out of the battle field. Many more are continuing to loose their lives in and around the world till this day. Middle East, Palestine, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Lebanon . Innocent life lost anywhere is a tragedy.
It is a bold and brave step to commemorate all innocent killed in war and conflict around the world, in both past and present conflicts. Its time that people realise that its not just the Jewish Community who have suffered during the war, but many many others as well. If we live in a global and tolerant community called UK, then surely we should all remember people killed in conflict. People of all religions and nationality. It does not make monitary sense to remember all the victims separately, based on ethnic and religious divide.
I think that its time that the Jewish community realise that no one is trying to overtake the importance of the Holocaust, but merely explain the importance of it and other tragedies as well.
Posted by: nblum on 4:02pm Sun 28 Jan 07
the murder of the jews in ww2 was unique in as much as they were singled out for destruction by the nazis irrespective of country of origin.but purely as jews defined by religon.
it is sad that Bolton council has taken this decision as result of political pressure
holocaust day was a date to remind the world of the dangers that religous intolerance can lead to. A lesson that still requires to be learnt 60 years afetr the war
the murder of the jews in ww2 was unique in as much as they were singled out for destruction by the nazis irrespective of country of origin.but purely as jews defined by religon.
it is sad that Bolton council has taken this decision as result of political pressure
holocaust day was a date to remind the world of the dangers that religous intolerance can lead to. A lesson that still requires to be learnt 60 years afetr the war
Posted by: Paul Laurie on 4:06pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Making out that the Holocaust is somehow equivalent to Israel's self-defence against an enemy that desires it's anhiliation is an act of Anti-Semitism. Where it isn't intentional, I could expect ignorant individuals to make this blunder. But for a whole town council to reach and hold this view, and then to showcase on a special set aside day is just a spectacular piece of bad news for Bolton. Obviously, Bolton doesn't have the sort of people in charge that it deserves (or perhaps it does).
They say that we are being prepared for the 2nd Holocaust - which is Iran's direct or indirect nuclear assault on Israel and the Jewish people. Apparently, that preparation is well advanced in Bolton.
Making out that the Holocaust is somehow equivalent to Israel's self-defence against an enemy that desires it's anhiliation is an act of Anti-Semitism. Where it isn't intentional, I could expect ignorant individuals to make this blunder. But for a whole town council to reach and hold this view, and then to showcase on a special set aside day is just a spectacular piece of bad news for Bolton. Obviously, Bolton doesn't have the sort of people in charge that it deserves (or perhaps it does).
They say that we are being prepared for the 2nd Holocaust - which is Iran's direct or indirect nuclear assault on Israel and the Jewish people. Apparently, that preparation is well advanced in Bolton.
Posted by: Ismail B on 4:23pm Sun 28 Jan 07
WELL DONE BOLTON COUNCIL, LETS HAVE ONE FOR ALL.
WELL DONE BOLTON COUNCIL, LETS HAVE ONE FOR ALL.
Posted by: P Arkwright on 4:29pm Sun 28 Jan 07
What is the issue here? Why the sensationalist headline in the Bolton News? There are only a handful of Greater Manchester Councils doing something anyway! Check out the Governmet sponsored HMD website.
Can we not move with the times without being accused of being anti-semitic?
They want Bolton to organise a HMD event, get us thier despite us kicking and screaming and ram a single message down our throats. But I will welcome and attend a broader genocide commemorating event.
What is the issue here? Why the sensationalist headline in the Bolton News? There are only a handful of Greater Manchester Councils doing something anyway! Check out the Governmet sponsored HMD website.
Can we not move with the times without being accused of being anti-semitic?
They want Bolton to organise a HMD event, get us thier despite us kicking and screaming and ram a single message down our throats. But I will welcome and attend a broader genocide commemorating event.
Posted by: Ponder on 4:55pm Sun 28 Jan 07
I support the councils decision - it is bold, unique and totally fair for most reasonable people to recognise all geneocides should be covered equitably such as Bosnia, Nagasaki and Hiroshima, chechneya, holocaust, etc rather than give preferential treatment towards one tragedy only.
It is also strange that some of the posts above use this and every opportunity to demonise the muslims to protect contemporary Israeli zionist crimes the same way Hitler blamed Jews for all the 'bad' in Germany and elsewhere. It seems to me that the some of the oppressed have become the oppressors today and are taking out their past frustrations on innocent Palestinian civilians (collateral damage as they say)- surely history is supposed to teach lessons that we do not repeat on any other race or religion in the future!
By the way for those who may not realise in their 'muslim bashing' emails that it was the Europeans and Christians (past) who persecuted and killed the Jews, causing the holocaust (and other historical inquisitions) - it was not the Palestinians. Why should the Palestinian people pay for the crime committed by the Europeans and earlier crusades ?
Surely, no matter how biased you may be against Muslims and Palestinians you should focus on the original oppressors against the Jewish people. You should also notice how the far right is rising again across the whole of Europe, rather than using this as a cheap opportunity for Muslim/Palestinian bashing and lose focus away from the true danger i.e. the far right and neocons.
To fight extremism and injustice we must recognise that this is a collective battle for the whole of mankind standing side-by-side, which requires mutual recognition of each others pain and suffering, and then we can move forward together. If we favour one community over another, and do not recognise that numerous faiths and people are suffering and have suffered then we always be prone to repeat mankind’s mistakes and be continuously engaged in partisan politics avoiding the greater good for all.
Recognise all genocides and suffering together in an all inclusive manner.
I support the councils decision - it is bold, unique and totally fair for most reasonable people to recognise all geneocides should be covered equitably such as Bosnia, Nagasaki and Hiroshima, chechneya, holocaust, etc rather than give preferential treatment towards one tragedy only.
It is also strange that some of the posts above use this and every opportunity to demonise the muslims to protect contemporary Israeli zionist crimes the same way Hitler blamed Jews for all the 'bad' in Germany and elsewhere. It seems to me that the some of the oppressed have become the oppressors today and are taking out their past frustrations on innocent Palestinian civilians (collateral damage as they say)- surely history is supposed to teach lessons that we do not repeat on any other race or religion in the future!
By the way for those who may not realise in their 'muslim bashing' emails that it was the Europeans and Christians (past) who persecuted and killed the Jews, causing the holocaust (and other historical inquisitions) - it was not the Palestinians. Why should the Palestinian people pay for the crime committed by the Europeans and earlier crusades ?
Surely, no matter how biased you may be against Muslims and Palestinians you should focus on the original oppressors against the Jewish people. You should also notice how the far right is rising again across the whole of Europe, rather than using this as a cheap opportunity for Muslim/Palestinian bashing and lose focus away from the true danger i.e. the far right and neocons.
To fight extremism and injustice we must recognise that this is a collective battle for the whole of mankind standing side-by-side, which requires mutual recognition of each others pain and suffering, and then we can move forward together. If we favour one community over another, and do not recognise that numerous faiths and people are suffering and have suffered then we always be prone to repeat mankind’s mistakes and be continuously engaged in partisan politics avoiding the greater good for all.
Recognise all genocides and suffering together in an all inclusive manner.
Posted by: jackie goymour on 4:56pm Sun 28 Jan 07
I have two comments.
1. Holocaust Memorial Day, whilst comemorating the Holocaust, does in fact include all genocidal atrocities since 1945. It is not exclusive to WWII. The mere fact that recent atrocities are included makes the actual commemmoration very important, as it is obvious we are not learning from history, and so have to be reminded of it, every year.
2. The action by the Council is shabby at best, and racist at worst, pandering to the lowest common denomintor.
I have two comments.
1. Holocaust Memorial Day, whilst comemorating the Holocaust, does in fact include all genocidal atrocities since 1945. It is not exclusive to WWII. The mere fact that recent atrocities are included makes the actual commemmoration very important, as it is obvious we are not learning from history, and so have to be reminded of it, every year.
2. The action by the Council is shabby at best, and racist at worst, pandering to the lowest common denomintor.
Posted by: Reason on 5:09pm Sun 28 Jan 07
I cannot understand why some have used the discussion to bring up acts of terrorism, the day is not in remembrance of terrorist actions nor is it a general anti-war day it is to remember specifically attempted genocide. This does not apply to the terrorism of either Muslims at 9/11 nor Israelis in the occupied territories. I could understand if those opposed to remembering the holocaust were talking about the Turkish Muslims attempted genocide of the Armenian Christians in 1915, some of the Pogroms of Stalin against the ethnic groups in central Russia or the Hutu attack on the Tutsis. Neither does it involve the effects of conventional warfare such as mass bombing raids, however horrific they might have been. Its about a pre-planned attempt to wipe a whole race of people from the earth and that is something which I believe is deserving of special remembrance. Those not willing to learn from history are, after all, doomed to repeat it.
I cannot understand why some have used the discussion to bring up acts of terrorism, the day is not in remembrance of terrorist actions nor is it a general anti-war day it is to remember specifically attempted genocide. This does not apply to the terrorism of either Muslims at 9/11 nor Israelis in the occupied territories. I could understand if those opposed to remembering the holocaust were talking about the Turkish Muslims attempted genocide of the Armenian Christians in 1915, some of the Pogroms of Stalin against the ethnic groups in central Russia or the Hutu attack on the Tutsis. Neither does it involve the effects of conventional warfare such as mass bombing raids, however horrific they might have been. Its about a pre-planned attempt to wipe a whole race of people from the earth and that is something which I believe is deserving of special remembrance. Those not willing to learn from history are, after all, doomed to repeat it.
Posted by: raz on 5:13pm Sun 28 Jan 07
If this story disgusts you. Then check out [bold]Littlegreenfootballs.com[/bold] re the reaction of the BBC[bold]bold[/bold]
If this story disgusts you. Then check out
Littlegreenfootballs.com re the reaction of the BBC
Posted by: jake fisher on 5:24pm Sun 28 Jan 07
[quote][bold]raz[/bold] wrote:
If this story disgusts you. Then check out [bold]Littlegreenfootballs.com[/bold] re the reaction of the BBC[bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] LGF is awesome!!!
Shame on Bolton. And shame on those racist bunch who scrap Holocaust Rememberance Day! And how dishonest it was to not even notify the Jewish community of Bolton. Remember that it memorializes 11 million handicapped ,jews, queers, socialists & gypsies...you must have a problem with all of them to remove that day from Bolton.
raz wrote:
If this story disgusts you. Then check out Littlegreenfootballs.com re the reaction of the BBC
LGF is awesome!!!
Shame on Bolton. And shame on those racist bunch who scrap Holocaust Rememberance Day! And how dishonest it was to not even notify the Jewish community of Bolton. Remember that it memorializes 11 million handicapped ,jews, queers, socialists & gypsies...you must have a problem with all of them to remove that day from Bolton.
Posted by: John McNabb on 5:30pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Marco I completely agree with you that Islamic terrorism does exist and we all know that, even many Muslims from here and especially Iraq would agree that Islamic terrorist exist.
But my point being that if ANYONE attempts to mention a Jewish terrorist, then that person is either anti-Semitic or a Nazi or a liar or he’s a Muslim. There seems to be one rule for one, and another rule for the rest.
To see Jewish terrorist acts I suggest you start at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence
(and then go through each links)
You’ll find:
‘British described such political violence as "Jewish" or "Zionist terrorism".’
Now you can’t blame the British for being Nazis or liars or Muslims.
When Baruch Goldstein killed 29 and wounded another 150 in a shooting attack, on the Palestinians, many like yourself saw him has an Israeli ‘defending his homeland’, or that this story was made up, and the whole incident didn’t happen.
As Michael Jackson said “If you wanna make the world a better place, Take a look at yourself, and then make a change”
Marco I completely agree with you that Islamic terrorism does exist and we all know that, even many Muslims from here and especially Iraq would agree that Islamic terrorist exist.
But my point being that if ANYONE attempts to mention a Jewish terrorist, then that person is either anti-Semitic or a Nazi or a liar or he’s a Muslim. There seems to be one rule for one, and another rule for the rest.
To see Jewish terrorist acts I suggest you start at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence
(and then go through each links)
You’ll find:
‘British described such political violence as "Jewish" or "Zionist terrorism".’
Now you can’t blame the British for being Nazis or liars or Muslims.
When Baruch Goldstein killed 29 and wounded another 150 in a shooting attack, on the Palestinians, many like yourself saw him has an Israeli ‘defending his homeland’, or that this story was made up, and the whole incident didn’t happen.
As Michael Jackson said “If you wanna make the world a better place, Take a look at yourself, and then make a change”
Posted by: simon on 6:05pm Sun 28 Jan 07
United Nations statement of commitment
1. We recognise that the Holocaust shook the foundations of modern civilisation. Its unprecedented character and horror will always hold universal meaning.
2. We believe the Holocaust must have a permanent place in our nation's collective memory. We honour the survivors still with us, and reaffirm our shared goals of mutual understanding and justice.
3. We must make sure that future generations understand the causes of the Holocaust and reflect upon its consequences. We vow to remember the victims of Nazi persecution and of all genocide.
4. We value the sacrifices of those who have risked their lives to protect or rescue victims, as a touchstone of the human capacity for good in the face of evil.
5. We recognise that humanity is still scarred by the belief that race, religion, disability or sexuality make some people's lives worth less than others'. Genocide, antisemitism, racism, xenophobia and discrimination still continue. We have a shared responsibility to fight these evils.
6. We pledge to strengthen our efforts to promote education and research about the Holocaust and other genocide. We will do our utmost to make sure that the lessons of such events are fully learnt.
7. We will continue to encourage Holocaust remembrance by holding an annual Holocaust Memorial Day. We condemn the evils of prejudice, discrimination and racism. We value a free, tolerant, and democratic society.
United Nations statement of commitment
1. We recognise that the Holocaust shook the foundations of modern civilisation. Its unprecedented character and horror will always hold universal meaning.
2. We believe the Holocaust must have a permanent place in our nation's collective memory. We honour the survivors still with us, and reaffirm our shared goals of mutual understanding and justice.
3. We must make sure that future generations understand the causes of the Holocaust and reflect upon its consequences. We vow to remember the victims of Nazi persecution and of all genocide.
4. We value the sacrifices of those who have risked their lives to protect or rescue victims, as a touchstone of the human capacity for good in the face of evil.
5. We recognise that humanity is still scarred by the belief that race, religion, disability or sexuality make some people's lives worth less than others'. Genocide, antisemitism, racism, xenophobia and discrimination still continue. We have a shared responsibility to fight these evils.
6. We pledge to strengthen our efforts to promote education and research about the Holocaust and other genocide. We will do our utmost to make sure that the lessons of such events are fully learnt.
7. We will continue to encourage Holocaust remembrance by holding an annual Holocaust Memorial Day. We condemn the evils of prejudice, discrimination and racism. We value a free, tolerant, and democratic society.
Posted by: Muhammad on 6:17pm Sun 28 Jan 07
That’s right blame the Muslims for all of this. We’ll probably get blamed for starting the holocaust. ****, some people even believe Hitler is a Muslim!
I regularly pray at my local mosque. The London Central Mosque, which was founded during World War II, in recognition of the substantial Muslim population of the British Empire and its support for the Allies during the war. On October 24, 1940, the Churchill War Cabinet allocated £100,000 for acquisition of a site for a mosque in London. The site chosen was a 2.3-acre spot in a prime location next to Regent's Park. The Islamic Cultural Centre, which would later include the mosque, was officially opened in November 1944 by King George VI.
On holocaust day, I’ll be at my local mosque, praying for peace in the Middle East, and that we never have another holocaust, genocide, terrorism or war, on any human being, whether he is a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim.
That’s right blame the Muslims for all of this. We’ll probably get blamed for starting the holocaust. ****, some people even believe Hitler is a Muslim!
I regularly pray at my local mosque. The London Central Mosque, which was founded during World War II, in recognition of the substantial Muslim population of the British Empire and its support for the Allies during the war. On October 24, 1940, the Churchill War Cabinet allocated £100,000 for acquisition of a site for a mosque in London. The site chosen was a 2.3-acre spot in a prime location next to Regent's Park. The Islamic Cultural Centre, which would later include the mosque, was officially opened in November 1944 by King George VI.
On holocaust day, I’ll be at my local mosque, praying for peace in the Middle East, and that we never have another holocaust, genocide, terrorism or war, on any human being, whether he is a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim.
Posted by: Daisy on 6:38pm Sun 28 Jan 07
"Cllr Cliff Morris, Leader of Bolton Council, refused to say who made the final decision to cancel the ceremony." That plus this: "I can't help feeling the decision was influenced by Bolton's large Muslim community." = "I don't want to be murdered for speaking the truth about my willingness to be a Dhimmi" What disgusting cowardice.
The Holocaust was a European event .. brought about as a culmination of centuries of ideological and practical anti-Semitism. Only a throughly sanctimoniously secular Europe would choose to forget what it .. COLLECTIVELY .. wrought. This is another big step into oblivion for Europe.
"Cllr Cliff Morris, Leader of Bolton Council, refused to say who made the final decision to cancel the ceremony." That plus this: "I can't help feeling the decision was influenced by Bolton's large Muslim community." = "I don't want to be murdered for speaking the truth about my willingness to be a Dhimmi" What disgusting cowardice.
The Holocaust was a European event .. brought about as a culmination of centuries of ideological and practical anti-Semitism. Only a throughly sanctimoniously secular Europe would choose to forget what it .. COLLECTIVELY .. wrought. This is another big step into oblivion for Europe.
Posted by: Michael on 6:39pm Sun 28 Jan 07
It seems rather sad to see so man
